Platon Alexiades Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 If one is showing disrespect it is the one who claims that he has found a tomb when he has very little evidence of the identity of the wreck.This is what the relatives of the victims feel right now in the UK.We are still waiting for another sonar expert to confirm your claim. You were asked to produce one a long time ago and we are still waiting...Your sonar interpretation is yours alone. Be honest enough to admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMISSON Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) A Post on : http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17655 Hello Kevin ,GoTo :http://www.aidmen.it/topic/213-marsa...relitti/page-4From Post #48 onwards : it is all there !You do not write History with assumptions or calculations because of empty Archives on a subject . The story is only to be found on the Italian side : Mr F.Mattesini of the (Italian) Ufficio Storico della Marina , Rome , has clearly demonstrated why and how HMS URGE has been lost to an air attack of Italian CR 42 planes on the morning of April 29,1942 and this was the result of my putting a sonar image on the AIDMEN Forum . Some will say there is some strange coincidence there ...but there is none : I published the sonar image last year and it is more than a year later that the gentleman came out with the Italian archival evidence . I am not really concerned with the why and the how : my duty and obligation was only to say there is a Tomb there , a mass Tomb and that Tomb is of British submariners because the Tomb is a submarine , U Class , and as far as I know it can only be HMS URGE .I have done that and I am quite happy not to have asked permission to do so to anyone...A very last statement : The sonar document will never be erased by words .The sonar image is of a submarine , a submarine U Class !If there is an Aperture , there , in the very position seen on vintage pictures of these U Class units showing their Mooring Pipes...then ....this is URGE !Getting close to 78 I will not be able to return to Libya for other pictures or other (better ?) evidence , but a Libyan diver might manage to get there : he knows where to look for URGE in raised metal letters : I have transferred to him everything I know about the wreck . Edited June 21, 2016 by JPMISSON sandokan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) So why don't you wait for your Libyan diver to verify it? Edited June 22, 2016 by Platon Alexiades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMISSON Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Wrong again , on two counts : -I own no Libyan diver . -My finds are in the sea , not in the air . You really ought to polish your words a little more.... Make no mistake : I am a too tough a bite for you to swallow !Sarebbe ora di capirlo . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) I understand you are the only person right and the sonar experts are all wrong?Then I suppose I have no hope to change your mind... Edited June 22, 2016 by Platon Alexiades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMISSON Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 For a Press article , mentioning an attack on HMS URGE by an Italian biplane at RAS EL HILAL and a "German naval report" on the event , see :http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3071806/Discovery-British-Second-World-War-submarine-coast-Libya-ends-70-year-mystery.html I was never approached by a journalist on the subject of How or Why this happened to URGE !The journalists must have "invented" it all (like poor Mr Evans....Post #64) Perchè non chiedere a questi giornalisti dove hanno trovato queste informazioni ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I suppose the journalist invented the interview he had with you?Show me "the German Naval Report". You cannot because it does not exist.Mr Evans did not invent anything. He clearly states that Urge was either mined or sunk by CR-42 fighters. He wrote that the latter was one of the possibilities. He did not know the answer. If he had given a closer look at documents he would have come to the same conclusion as I did. Other sources at that time gave HMS Urge sunk by the torpedo boat Pegaso on 9 May, does that make them right? Vice Admiral Hezlet who wrote "British and Allied Submarine Operations in World War Two (two volumes published by the Royal Navy Submarine Museum) wrote that Urge was probably mined in the Malta Searched Channel. He never considered the possibility of Ras Hilal and he wrote a very definitive history. Why don't you quote him? Edited June 22, 2016 by Platon Alexiades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMISSON Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Do not saturate this Forum with your thin reasoning . You should know , by now , that here people have made up their mind after Mr F. Mattesini gave his evidence and version of the events . Furthermore , the article in Storia Militare is a better reading than astronomical calculations of speed , assumptions ,opinions and all the rest that will never , ever , change the situation : URGE is at Marsa el Hilal . Period FinitoChiusoLasciamo questi sommergibilisti tranquilli : R.I.P. Edited June 22, 2016 by JPMISSON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Mattesini Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Martedi scorso mi sono operato all'occhio destro di cataratta e pertanto, essendomi difficile il leggere e lo scrivere, vedendo tutto offuscato, prego J.P. e Platon di avere pazienza. Quando mi sara possibile riprendere la discussione. Cordialmente Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Dear Franco, I wish you a prompt recovery from your cataract operation and a quick return to this forum. All the best, Platon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Caro Franco, Un augurio di rapido ritorno all'operativita'. Abbiamo tutti bisogno del tuo prezioso contributo al forum. P.S quando puoi, dai un'occhiata al thread su Giorgio Verità Poeta... Giuseppe Garufi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Mattesini Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Francesco, Platon e Jean Pierre. Vi rinfrazione di cuore. Comunque per scrivere e leggere dovrò usare gli occhiali. Quelli usati per la prima cataratta, occhio sinistro, non sono più adatti. Cordialmente Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMISSON Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 In : http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17655Post #40by Platon AlexiadesQuote. "I think you are the only one seeing a mooring pipe in the sonar photo..." Unquote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In : http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17655Post #19 by CBMQuote.The aperture in the casing of the U-Class submarine, indicated in the image provided by JP Misson, is the starboard mooring pipe. The port side is identical. Used for additional berthing lines when alongside. It's like an enclosed fairlead or hawse pipe. See drawing of a U-Class & legend. The mooring pipe is number 120. Unquote.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Comment by JPM Had the gentleman not been able to see this detail on the sonar image , I imagine he would have said so and wouldnot have been able to identify the aperture so precisely ... Poor sight only ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Perhaps you should ask CBM the direct question? I can quote his answer in post#25 http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17655[my underline] JP - I was not guessing or surmising at what the subject aperture is on a U-Class submarine... I 100% know what said aperture is. However, even after identifying the aperture use... it will make no difference to the fact that you cannot positively identify a wreck from a side scan SONAR image and a story that just happens to fit nicely. I feel extremely sorry for the families of Urge crew who you have embroiled with this fixated claim. Please, Please, start listening to people who know what they are talking about and who are trying to help you. PS: Purchase a seamanship manual and find out what a bollard bit is.I GIVE UP!! R+ [End Quote] Do I need to add anything more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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