Nereo Castelli Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 NORBURG: piroscafo costruito nel 1922 a Lubecca da Koch come HORNSUND, nel 1926 diventa PERA e nel 1931 è ribattezzato NORBURG dalla Flensburger Dampfercompagnie Harald Schuldt & Co.K.G. di Amburgo.2392 tsl – 90,1x13 m- 1 macchina a triplice espansione – 9,5 nodi Nel settembre del 1941 si trova fuori Suda dove, secondo contrastanti fonti, sarà silurato più volte: 12.9.41: HMS TORBAY silura il pfo germanico NORBURG in porto a Heraklion. La nave si appoggia sul fondo e sarà ricuperata ma non entrerà mai più in servizio.http://uboat.net:8080/allies/warships/ship/3498.html 10.11.41: NORBURG silurato a nord di Creta dal smg greco GLAVKOS ma riesce a raggiungere la costa.(Schmelzkopf “Die italienische Handelsflotte im Zweiten Weltkrieg”) 10.11.41: RHS GLAVKOS silura e danneggia il mercantile germanico NORBURG al largo di Suda.http://uboat.net:8080/allies/warships/ship/9907.html 24.11.41: HMS TRIUMPH silura il rimorchiatore di salvataggio HERCULES ormeggiato a fianco del pfo NORBURG a cui forniva assistenza nel porto di Heraklion.http://uboat.net:8080/allies/warships/ship/3488.html Qualcuno sa come si sono svolti veramente gli attacchi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Secondo Byron Tesapsides, "Allied Submarine Operations in Greece during World War II 1941-1944", pubblicato in proprio, 2012: 10.09.1941 TORBAY (from Alexandria 06.09.1941 at 19.50) at 08.42 fires 3 torpedoes at a convoy of two about 3,000-ton merchant vessels escorted by a torpedo-boat and a Cant.Z 501 Flying boat, sighted at 07.50 behind Suda Island. The torpedoes, fired 1.2 miles from Cape Drepano at 048°, all miss. Hunted and depth-charged by the escort 08.50-09.05. At 9.11 came to periscope depth, convoy still only 4 miles away stiil steering east. Decided to give chase, increased to 5 knots. 10.30-13.00 Convoy gradually drew ahead, smoke was lost at 11.30, under frequent air patrols over the area. 13.35 to 16.40 proceeded on the surface at high speed, crash diving each time aircraft were sighted.16.35 on the surface at 020° Standia Island Light 4.2 miles. Ovo Island sighted at 17 miles range. Realised that unless the convoy had been able to increase speed, they could not be more than 8 miles ahead and should therefore have been in sight in the excellent visibility prevailing. The convoy must therefore have gone into Candia. 17.17 dived in position 050° Candia breakwater 5 miles off, saw that convoy and escort were berthed in harbour alongside the northern breakwater: there were 3 merchant vessels, one of 4,000 tons and two of 2,000 tons. 20.03 fired one torpedo at almost the last moment of accurate periscope visibility at 3,000 yards, position Candia Light 1.4 miles. 20.05 observed one hit with very large splash, followed by fire and large quantities of smoke on the target. Turned to seaward and increased to full speed. 20.10 surfaced and proceeded at full speed on the engines, but was quickly forced to dive by accurate fire from the breakwater. 20.22 surfaced but was forced to dive again by aircraft. 20.32 surfaced and escaped northward at high speed, the last sight of the target showing her sinking and with a heavy list. Set course for Zea Channel. [Vessel hit not identified by author Tesapsides] (segue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Su "La difesa del traffico con l'Albania, la Grecia e l'Egeo", USMM 1965, risulta che NORBURG e SALZBURG sono andati dal Pireo a Suda con la scorta della Tp ALCIONE portando personale e materiali tedeschi il 29 agosto 1941. SALZBURG, insieme con i piroscafi CATERINA MADRE (italiano noleggiato dai tedeschi) e ARKADIA (tedesco) e le Tp ALCIONE e SIRIO, compie poi un altro tragitto Pireo- Suda sempre con materiali e personale tedesco il 15 settembre 1941, poi il 6 ottobre va da Candia a Suda con il Ct. SELLA, ed il 7 ottobre da Suda al Pireo con il p.fo tedesco TRAPANI, SELLA e CASTELFIDARDO ecc. NORBURG invece non ricompare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 GLAVKOS from Alexandria 5.11.1941 at 17.30.10.11.1941 at 17.22 sighted steamship near Cape Stavros proceeding towards Heraklion, commenced attack.17.45 ceased being able to see the ship through the periscope and intended to fire with hydrophones.17.49 ship was sighted for a moment. Fired two torpedoes range 1.300 metres.17.50 explosion of first torpedo was heard throughout the boat [Tesapsides identifies target as NORBURG, 2.392 grt, bound Heraklion]. The ship was seen through the periscope to stop with slightly reduced buoyancy. Sub then lost periscope depth and due to the darkness could not ascertain if the ship sank [author's note: damaged].The torpedoed ship seemed to be about 3,000 tons and was without escort. Attacked in position 35°25N 25°03E.18.35 surfaced and moved away from area, patrolled on Heraklion-Piraeus route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 TRIUMPH:24.11.1941 05.20-09.20 examined Candia Harbour in which were seen two merchant vessels (2.000 t and 1.500 t) secured alongside the mole, one trawler anchored and one auxiliary vessel at the far end of the mole.11.41 closed harbour on course 252° to 3.500 yards from the end of the breakwater, which partially screened the larger merchant vessel. 11.46 fired one torpedo at mainmast of 3,000-ton merchant vessel. This torpedo was observed to hit the armed trawler and the 1.500-ton merchant vessel which were secured alongside one another. Trawler immediately settled by the stern. [Tesapsides' note: HERCULES, 632 grt, sank at Heraklion harbour].11.45 fired second torpedo at mainmast of 2,000-ton merchant vessel. This torpedo probably ran slightly more left than the first, exploding at the far end of the harbour - running range being 5.000 yards. The auxiliary vessel at the end of the harbour was observed to be blowing off steam immediately after the explosion of the second torpedo, but no hit was observed.11.46 altered course outwards to starboard and dived at 180 feet to NE.17.15-17.31 nine depth charges dropped, none close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Secondo Cai Boie e Bernd Oesterle, "Die deutsche Handelsschiffahrt bei Kriegsausbruch 1939", Elbe-Spree Verlag, 2000, e secondo L.Dinklage-H.J.Witthoeft "Die deutsche Handelsflotte 1939-1945", Nikol, 2001, il NORBURG dell'armatore Schuldt il 23 agosto 1939 aveva raggiunto Istanbul, il 28/29 agosto era andato da Haidarpasa a Burgas in Bulgaria dove era stato messo in disarmo. Ricondotto in Egeo dal 22 aprile 1941. Il 19 settembre 1941 silurato a Candia dal GLAVKOS, recuperato nel 1942 e portato a Trieste. Le riparazioni a Trieste vennero sospese nell'aprile 1943 e il relitto fu fatto saltare il 1° maggio 1945 (c'è anche una foto). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Hi Nereo, Uboat.net has 10.09.41 (not 12.09.41 as you wrote) for TORBAY as well as Byron is correct.The attack by GLAVKOS on 10.11.41 is an error. German documents (See T1022/2587 KTB Kommandanten der Seevverteidigung Kreta, K. Z. S. Goette) show that she actually attacked and missed the German tug HERKULES (also reported as HERCULES).The attack by TRIUMPH on 24.11.41 is correct. HERKULES and IRINI VERNIKOU (both alongside NORBURG) were both sunk by the same torpedo hit but IRINI VERNIKOU was repaired fairly quickly. Best regards, Platon Nereo Castelli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Just for this once I beg to correct you, Platon. HERCULES (the former railway cargo vessel ALDERSHOT ex BRITTANY, 632 grt, built by Earle's Co. at Hull in 1910) was an Italian (and not a German) tug, her name notwithstanding. Her owner since 1937 was the well known SA di Navigaz. Rimorchi e Salvataggi D. & C. Tripcovich from Trieste. She was requisitioned by the Regia Marina on 1 June 1940 as the offshore minesweeper G 6, but employed as a salvage ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nereo Castelli Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks to all but especially thanks to you Platon, for having confirmed that both Schmelzkopf and UBoat.net (Allied warships) have wrongly reported the action of the RHS GLAVKOS. I apologize for having mixed up the dates. Therefore, the correct sequence should be: 10.9.1941 – NORBURG torpedoed by HMS TORBAY off Suda, towed to Heraklion in severely damaged condition (down with the poop).24.11.1941 – HMS TRIUMPH attacks NORBURG at Heraklion but the torpedo hits the Italian salvage tug HERCULES, fastened alongside. (HERCULES (1910) owned by D.Tripcovich & Ci. Società Anonima di Navigazione Rimorchi e Salvataggi, Trieste – requisitioned by the Regia Marina with the pennant G 6). I post a photo of the semi-submerged HERCULES alongside the NORBURG at Heraklion. The other salvage vessel, seen aft, is the Italian CYCLOPS (1905) also owned by D.Tripcovich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Mattesini Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Secondo Jurgen ROHWER in "Allied Submarine Attacks of World War Two", pag. 147, il NORBURG fu danneggiato, il 10 novemnre 1941, da siluro a Iraklion (Creta) lanciato dal sommergibile greco GLAVKOS (comandante Arslanoglou). L'attacco del GLAVKOS si verificò alle 17.30, mentre i dati tedeschi indicano le 17.45. Praticamente i due orari corrispondono. Franco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco De Domenico Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Il NORBURG dal libro di Cai Boie e Bernd Oesterle. Nereo writes: 24.11.1941 – HMS TRIUMPH attacks NORBURG at Heraklion but the torpedo hits the Italian salvage tug HERCULES, fastened alongside. Platon writes that the torpedo by TRUMPH also sank IRINI VERNICOU, moored alongside HERCULES. So three ships were moored together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Mattesini Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Secondo copia di un brigliaccio di Supermarina, molto dettagliato nei dati di affondamenti e danneggiamenti giornalieri, risulta che l'HERCULES (632 tsl) fu silurato, il 24 novembre, da un sommergibile nel Golfo di Candia, ma si ignorava se era stato affondato oppure no. Secondi Navi Militari perdute (USMM) il 24 novembre, alle ore 12.40, fu silurato dal sommergibile britannico TRIUMPH [riportato in Admiralty Submarine vol. II] ed affondò nel porto di Herakleion (Candia) nell'isola di Creta. Franco Edited October 26, 2015 by Francesco Mattesini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platon Alexiades Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hello Nereo and Franco, Nereo: A minor correction to your review: NORBURG was not torpedoed by TORBAY in Suda but in Heraklion harbour so she was never towed there. TORBAY was off Suda in the morning on 10.9.41 where she attacked NORBURG with SANTA FE escorted by the patrol vessel 12 V 4. She fired three torpedoes at 0842 hours but missed. TORBAY followed them to Heraklion (Candia) and torpedoed NORBURG at 2003 hours as she was at anchor in Heraklion. She was still there when TRIUMPH attempted to finish her off on 24.12.1941. Franco: Rohwer as the other writers are in error regarding the claim by GLAVKOS. There is not doubt it was the Italian tug HERCULES on passage from Suda to Heraklion which was missed, both torpedoes exploded on the shore. Best regards, Platon Nereo Castelli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Mattesini Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Platon, grazie del particolare dell'attacco del GLAVKOS all'HERCULES, che poi é stato affondato dal HMS TRIUMPH, come risulta nel Submarine vol. II.; informazione, che io avevo passato al Comandante Pagano dell'USMM per inserirlo nella seconda edizione del volume "Navi nercantili perdute". A questo riguardo, se vi sono nel libro errori sulle cause degli affondamenti delle navi mercantili italiane, che tu naturalmente avrai scoperto, la colpa é mia dal momento che sono notizie che ho passato a Pagano, ma che oggi sono anche molto datate. Franco . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aris Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 A distanst shot of Heraklion harbour includes IRINI VERNICOU next to NORBURG which is still down by the stern.source: http://www.deutschefotothek.de/documents/obj/71590440 Nereo Castelli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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